Messages posted by The Shadow - Forum (2024)

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Hi All,

Apologies if this is a simple question but I can't seem to find the info anywhere online. I'm getting back into the hobby after a few years out and am keen to get playing KoW again.

My question is whether or not I need to buy Clash of Kings 2019 AND 2018, or is all the 2018 additional content/rule changes included in or invalidated by 2019?

Thanks in advance

I'm not bothered about the prices across the board for newer, multi-part unit kits, but with individual characters, it does get a little silly.

Units-wise GW kits are consistently among the best models available and the wealth of different options, as well as the ability to combine with other kits with ease, does lead to many great conversion opportunities which I do think it's worth paying extra for, especially if you get ~20% off through an independent retailer. Whenever I buy an Ork Trukk for instance, I always manage to make two Trukks out of the kit, by using the wheels and a scratchbuilt chassis for one and the plastic chassis and a deffkopta rotor to make the second a "hover Trukk" for example.

But paying around £20 for an individual character is a joke, and has lead me to converting most of the new character models I use. It's a real shame as some of the character models are stunning but the price keeps me away. I'd love to pick up the Deathwatch Watch Master purely to paint, but I can't justify that price tag for something that's going to sit on the shelf . As the OP points out, GW could half the price of these kits and still make a great profit. Sadly they insist on keeping the price so high.

Lore aside - which I don't know a great deal about - I do think the whole Nurgle thing has gone way too far. I mean, I was getting tired of the seemingly unending Nurgle releases as it is, but to release a model who's name contains the word "sloppity" just makes me want it to end.

I'm normally a regular buyer of White Dwarf but when I saw this month's issue was a Nurgle special, I wasn't even tempted in the slightest to buy it.

I get the models are popular, or else why would GW keep releasing them, but their popularity does surprise me. Each to their own I guess but I think it's high time GW gave another army - or even another Chaos God - some love.

DaBraken wrote:
What do you think about the Tyrannofex with Acid Spray?

Now 24" threat range with 2D6 auto hitting shots while moving, 18" 4D6 while stationary. In addition stinger salvo.
For 214 points I think thats fair and probably it will generate a lot of empty space 18" around him.

I defenitely will field one or two, rather than the rupture cannon.
Massive threat against flyers coming too close and anything else trying to hide behind its hit modifiers.

I actually quite like the look of the Fleshborer Hive as there's a stratagem that gives fleshborers +1 to wound, which makes the Tfex wound MEQs on 2s.

Speaking of Tyrannofexes though (and Exocrine) if they haven't moved and fire twice and then you use the shoot again stratagem, do they shoot once more or a further two times?

Who's the better babysitter for a squad of Dark Reapers? A farseer for Guide + Forewarned stratagem, or a Warlord Autarch for the passive re-roll 1s (no need to cast, frees up guide elsewhere) and a the chance to re-use CPs? Thinking primarily for a Siam-Hann list, so the Reapers are really going to be the only static unit.

sossen wrote:
A gunline with AM units might be a good complement. HWT squads, infantry or conscripts as a screen, doesn't need any vehicles if you don't want them. Although with the model count that AM tends to lead to, transporting them might become an issue.

Thanks for the quick reply!

HWTs are a good idea. I could quite easily fit in a Spearhead Detachment with 3 HWTs and a Commissar for orders and that'd give me four units that'd definitely want to start on the board, freeing up more units for cult ambush. Would also be quite cheap points-wise and isn't a huge model/space commitment either

What heavy weapons would you recommend? I'm thinking a mix of Lascannons and Heavy Bolters/Mortars with the latter to save on points.

Had a chance to have my first few games of 8th edition this week and played a few with my Genestealer Cults army. The army is 100% infantry and in 7th I used to start two units of Neophytes and maybe a mage or two on the table, and Cult Ambush everything else, MSU style. However, with the Matched Play rules in 8th forcing you to start with half your army on the board, I'm struggling to adapt this army to the new edition. The fact that everything can Split Fire doesn't really help with MSU either.

So how are GSC players who go Cult Ambush heavy adapting their strategies to the new edition? Ideally, I don't want to be buying loads of Leman Russes or whatever to start on the board to free up space for my infantry to ambush as one of the appeals of the army for me was the fact that I could viably go full infantry and (ironically) transport the army to games easily. However, I'm not totally against investing in some new stuff if it's the best option and, to be fair, wouldn't mind the chance to convert up some Astra Militarium stuff with the new Blood Brothers rule.

So, any advice Dakka? How do I keep the uprising going?

Galef wrote:
Speaking of, what HQ's do you guys think I should take in a Ynnari list built to have as few drops as possible?

If it's a choice between Yvraine and The Yncarne, I'd go Yrvaine every time. I think she's the best Ynnari character overall and, although The Yncarne's melee ability is nice, you're really only taking Ynnari for Strength from Death and Word of the Pheonix, both of which Yvraine provides just fine. If you're focused on minimising drops, that's even more reason to opt for Yrvaine. If you need choices on top of that, go lone Warlocks if you want to save on points, or Farseers on foot if you feel you need the psychic powers. You've got plenty of space in the Serpent with the seven fire dragons to fit any extra characters without adding to your drops.

Gibs55 wrote:
Has anyone tested out a viable Elite Tyranids list? Kinds of like the idea of playing space bugs however the thought of painting dozens of models puts me off.

I think a "mid-size" (there's definitely a better term for that) Tyranid list would certainly be viable. Start by filling out your core with Tyranid Warriors (and Genestealers if you would count them as elite) with a Prime as your HQ to support them. Raveners are pretty great this edition so a unit or two of them, again supported by the Red Terror. A Trygon Prime would be an excellent choice to DS with your Raveners and offer Synapse support, as well as providing a good delivery method for any Genestealers you choose to take. Then stick in another HQ to make it a Battalion and fill out the points with whatever other units you think are best. I'm planning on trying out just such a list and am very excited to do so. Would've done already if I'd owned any Raveners...

As others have said, Exocrines and Carnifexes are good choices this edition, as is Swarmy if you can find the points. I also think the Haruspex is pretty decent too. Not had much chance to look at the FW stuff so can't speak for that. Not sold on Mawlocs either. But anyway, there's plenty of bigger bugs that are viable this edition. There's always the option to just forget the Warriors and go full on Nidzilla with the HS and Elite Detachments.

admironheart wrote:

Karhedron wrote:
Importantly, they are Assault rather than Heavy meaning the Serpent's firepower is not degraded when it moves unlike many vehicles. You can even shoot after advancing if you need that burst of speed. Vectored Engines on a triple Shuricannon build can be a neat trick but works best against low BS armies like Orks.
.

just remember that most elder support/vehicles do not have Battle Focus, so if you use Advancing move you still suffer the -1 for using Assault weapons like every other race.

I think the idea is more that you actually can still shoot with Assault weapons after advancing, and Vectored Engines give your opponent a -1 to hit if you advance. So you can shoot, with a penalty, but give your opponent a penalty as well. Good if you need the Serpent to survive an extra turn for whatever reason and, of course, it doesn't affect the shield if you choose to shoot that.

Speaking of vehicle upgrades, spirit stones seem to me to be a steal for 10 points, especially considering how durable Serpents already are, but I find I can never quite find the usually at least 30 points for the Serpents I'm fielding. Should I try and find those points?

I'd say the former, 4D3. You have 4 attacks and it says make D3 hit rolls for each attack, so that makes sense to me.

I'm sure grammatically you could probably argue the other way, it's just one of those situations, but that's how I'd interpret it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:
Orks as an army have been extremely Flanderized throughout the editions into being a "horde of Boyz" while losing a lot of tools/comedic "utility" that could potentially make such a horde work in the first place!

As a non-Orkz player, I see that GW has very appropriately honed the Ork army focus to serve as "comedic relief" against the Grimmest Darkest Grimdark that ever Grimdarked.

To properly match the Fluff, Orks should NEVER be anywhere close to "competitive" as an army - otherwise, they'd already have taken over the galaxy! That's why their army is correctly designed to randomly self-destruct or flop at critical junctures.

I wouldn't say that's quite right. I'm no background guru, but the reason I see for the Orks having never taken over the galaxy is because they never work together and there's lots of in-fighting. I'm pretty sure that's been referenced in the background several times. And so that shouldn't mean Orks are a stupid/incompetent/competitive army. They're just as savvy in battle as Space Marines, the only difference being separate factions of Space Marines work together.

Mr Morden wrote:

Random dice rolls anyone?

The Issue was not dice rolls as such but that things that should not have been random were: ie Warlord traits, Psychic Abilities etc - which are no longer in 8th ed - so major change for the better.

The "bloat" was that fact that in order to play a given army you have to look in codexes, supplements, downloadable limited edition boxes etc etc etc

Indexes sorted this out for 8th Ed but sadly they are moving back towards it with the new Marine Codex as some units are in one or the other but not both.

I don't really think this was all that bad. Warlord Traits maybe didn't make sense to be fair, but I think the psychic system worked. Similar to old WHFB magic which was good (it had flaws but nothing to do with spell generation). The issue with 8th now is that you'll get psychic powers that never get used, because they're inferior to others in their discipline and/or because they're not worth casting over Smite. It was annoying, but 7th meant you had to sometimes make things work you wouldn't choose otherwise, which was a nice tactical challenge. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the certainty of always having a certain power, but of all the random things in 7th, psychic powers were far from the worst of it.

SemperMortis wrote:

warhead01 wrote:

Would you say this is better or worse than 7th edition trukks?

Worse, by far. 7th edition Trukkz were actually better, significantly less durable but more useful for an assault army, especially when Trukk Boyz were still usable.

The issue isn't the Trukks themselves. They're more durable now, and can't be one-shotted as they could quite easily be previously. The issue is, as you say, the fact that you'll be relying on bad Ld with such a small boyz unit. While that sadly does mean that boyz in a trukk isn't a competitive choice, there's still plenty of mileage you can get out of trukks - units of 5/6 Nobz with a runt each, MANz, Tankbustas etc

gungo wrote:You know it would be fluffy and cool if not very competitive if we could give every nob in a nob unit cybork bodies however it only allows 1 in 5 to have it. Which is sad because there are awsome 3rd party models to add cybork legs and arms to ork boys.

Ah. Missed that. Painboys it is then.

SemperMortis wrote:

The Shadow wrote:

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Negative Nancy chiming in again, but save the points on those Cyborg and Painboy additions. Unless you want to be fluffy then go ahead.

25pts for a 6+ save. Nobz cost 17pts with 2wounds, so each wound is about 9pts worth. In order to make back those 25pts you need to save 3 wounds minimum with those additions. If you have 5 nobz with Cybork you have 10 wounds total. The chance of rolling 3 6s for them is very small. statistically you are more likely to roll 1 MAYBE 2 but 3 is pushing your lucky pretty far. For those 25pts though you could get another nob and another runt.

For Boyz squads its kind of worse. If you are running a Painboy without any upgrades you need to save 11 boyz models in order to earn back those points (unless you are taking it to heal your weirdboy) but that means you need to roll 11 6s. if you have 60 Boyz within 3in of your Painboy you will statistically roll 10 6s, and that is only if they all die. And honestly if it gets to that point you probably will lose them to Morale anyway so who cares?

Again though, for those 65pts you can field almost 11 more boyz, or 10 boyz a nob and a Big Choppa.

There is very little point in taking protective buffs like that anymore. The same is true for things like the Big Mek with KFF, he needs to save 13 models that would have died without his KFF in order to make back his points, and worse for him at least, he only extends a bubble of protection so you have to cram all those units into close contact with him in order to get the save, that means you are yielding a large part of the board to your enemy.

Statistically, having more models instead of a painboy or KFF supporting them may be better, but this isn't always practical in game. Say it's a unit of 19 Boyz and a Painboy in a Battlewagon. Sure, having 26 boyz or whatever might be mathematically better, but those 26 boyz aren't going to fit in the transport. Same with units of 30, that's the max size, so you can't increase it further, although I suppose you can take another squad in that instance. Still, I'd rather have a unit of 30 Boyz Da Jumping up the battlefield and a painboy on a bike behind them to support them, rather than having another unit of 12 boyz that's only going to be able to offer support next turn.

Plus, there's a financial and time cost to consider with so many boyz

LiMunPai wrote:
CP are not designated at the beginning of the game; you get to determine their use on the fly.

Good to hear

gungo wrote:Take grotsnik instead of a basic painboy. Better save, better toughness, double fnp saves and reliable pk hits, a shooting profile and a nice advance and charge ability for 5poinys more. I wouldn't keep him near the kff mek if it loses you a chance at combat w him.

Good call on this

Shadenuat wrote:

Yeah D-scythe Wraithguard do have a lot going for them, but they're just so expensive.

They're somewhat cheaper than full squad of Fire Dragons while featuring better toughness and more wounds. As for their D3, that's where Command Points and Word of Phoenix are your friends. And they can smack head or two in melee and shoot after fall back, so enemy can't lock them from shooting (not that it's a good idea to assault a squad with auto-hitting D-Scythes ofc).

True, they are good don't get me wrong, I'm just struggling to find the space for it. And I'm not sure you'd want to take a full squad of Fire Dragons, surely five or six will do, which makes them a cheaper option.

And yeah the big thing for me about the Hemlock is that, thanks to auto-hit, it doesn't depreciate as it loses wounds. So many things across all armies I've read the profile of and thought "that looks good" only to realise it'll hit with like half as many of its attacks once it takes enough wounds.

SemperMortis wrote:

The Shadow wrote:
What does everyone think of the Ork flyers in the new edition?

I'll be picking up another Eldar flyer since they're so food these days, and figured for an extra bit of cash I may as well pick up the Stormcloud game with the Ork flyer in as well. I understand they may not be the best models to use competitively, but I love the models and would definitely want to use them at some point in a semi-competitive pick up game. Already got a Dakkajet, but what should I build my new one as? To me the two Bommer variants look the best, with maybe the Blitza edging out the Burna since we have so much anti-infantry and burny goodness in the army already.

My honest opinion? Save your money. The Dakkajet is the only "Decent" variant right now and even that isn't particularly good. If you are really hell bent on getting one though I would probably go with the Blitza or another Dakkajet over the Burna or the Wazbom variant.

Rismonite wrote:I have a couple planes, I am never pleased by their performance. I think the dakkajet isn't terrible in the right list. I don't think the burna bomma is awful in a vehicle or walker list. Burna bomma explodes on a 4+, instead of 6. If you can get it to explode near enemies it's 3 mortal wounds to every unit in six inches. I wouldn't want it to blow up near my characters, the enemy wouldn't either.

Edit; It has potential, if it can shoot anything before it dies then blows up on more then just light infantry it might just pay itself off. The explosion is worth a CP reroll if you have the right enemies nearby.

Hmm... Well, if I can find a Hemlock going cheap on eBay I'll pick that up instead, but if not I feel I may as well for the extra ~£12 or whatever. Didn't realise the burna exploded on a 4, and didn't think of using a command re-roll to get the explosion if I want it or stop it if I don't. That's something I feel a lot of people won't realise as well

LiMunPai wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:
Have you (or anyone else) tried 15 nobs and 15 runts? would that be more effective than 29 boyz and 1 nob? The boyz are much cheaper.

Not quite, the max squad size is 10 Nobz and 10 runtz. I run them with 5 Killsaws, 5 big Choppas, and 10 shootas. With KFF, Painboy, and 30 Warpath Boyz teleporting at the enemy every turn, they do an alright job of surviving. Once you can get them the banner buff onto an armored target, give them Warpath and send them in.

Including shooting, this squad just barely one rounds a knight on average dice using Warpath and Banner completely discounting the grots on the assumption they die somewhere on the way in, like with overwatch. It has a lot of vulnerabilities, but the offense versus armor just can't be replicated anywhere else in Orks that isn't a complete liability.

One trick with them is to make a trail of runtz back to the banner buff after using Warpath and Da Jump. Feels good killing an Imperial Knight on the bottom of 1 if you're willing to take the risk.

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Nice call on using ammo runts to get the unit in range of buffs though

Also, a bit of a general rules question: A lot of people have been mentioning using CP re-rolls for one thing or another, or using them to negate morale tests. Do these stratagems (is that the name?) need to be included with your army list (i.e. if you include 3 re-rolls you can't change your mind mid-battle and auto-pass a Morale check), or can you just choose to use them on the fly, providing you have enough CP, of course?

What does everyone think of the Ork flyers in the new edition?

I'll be picking up another Eldar flyer since they're so food these days, and figured for an extra bit of cash I may as well pick up the Stormcloud game with the Ork flyer in as well. I understand they may not be the best models to use competitively, but I love the models and would definitely want to use them at some point in a semi-competitive pick up game. Already got a Dakkajet, but what should I build my new one as? To me the two Bommer variants look the best, with maybe the Blitza edging out the Burna since we have so much anti-infantry and burny goodness in the army already.

The Strength from Death bubble is only 7" and keeping your forces within 7" of each other can be a challenge, even for a good general. If he slips up, make sure to pounce on a unit that's isolated.

That's not to say that there'll be units out there on their own all the time, but, even if he keeps every unit in his army within 7" of another, there'll always be some units that are receiving less support than others. For example, wiping out a unit that only triggers one unit for a potential SfD action is much better than wiping out a unit that triggers several. I like to think about it as fighting Tau and Supporting Fire or whatever it's called. Charging a unit in the middle of his battleline is suicide, since you'll have four other units firing overwatch at you. However, charging a unit on the end, that only triggers one other overwatch, is normally ok. So think about it like that.

If you can, make sure the unit you trigger for a SfD action doesn't get maximum effectiveness out of the action. For example, if he has a unit of Fire Dragons set up nicely 7" away from a weakened unit, make sure you move any big vehicles or monsters away from them and make sure the unit you send in to wipe out the weakened unit isn't one of the fire dragons' optimal targets, in case they fall in the firing line. To this end, mobile units can really give you an advantage.

Finally, remember that SfD doesn't activate in the Morale Phase. So, if you have anything that can reduce Leadership, add to Morale Test rolls, or anything like that, bring it. These things are pretty useful overall anyway, so they won't be a liability even if you don't fight against Ynnari.

Hope this helps!

Shadenuat wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
Also note that you can only use Ynnari now by having one of the Ynnari HQs as Warlord. Not a huge deal, since Yvraine fits pretty well into most lists.

I'm actually struggling to think of any use for Ynnari characters in my army. I don't need them for either dragons or banshees. Jetbikes and any fast attack choices work better with jet farseer. Mech, serpents in particular, and everything in them benefits from autarch a lot. List made of tanks and flyers doesn't need SFD. But I like me some SFD on MSU troops and aspect warriors. Don't own any Wraithguard.

The only combo which is pretty much a given is Yvraine + Warlock + Dark Reapers.

But if I don't have anything on the level of 10 reapers squad or Wraithguard with D-Scythes, what's to use her for?

Yeah I've been wondering about this too.

I've written up a quick 1500 Ynnari list that makes use of Yvraine and 5 units of 2 Khymerae to act as Strength from Death ammo (as well as an easy CP with the Fast Attack detatchment) but I'm not really sure what are good targets for the extra "activation" from SfD. I've got two units of Guardians, the accompanying Wave Serpents, a Hemlock and a unit of Kabalites in a Venom as the only units that really put out any decent direct damage (and I suppose the Autarch in combat). Obviously I can add some more stuff taking the list up to 1850, but I'm wondering what. A unit of Fire Dragons/Wraithblades in a Serpent or a unit of Reapers sound like good options.

Karhedron wrote:

The Shadow wrote:
So, if several units of guardians in Serpents are the backbone of a good list, what are people fleshing it out with. Eldrad and Autarchs look good to me for the HQ slot and, as others have mentioned, Shadow Spectres and the two flyers are all solid units.

Rangers are OK as a Troop choice. I think they are slightly overcosted compared to SM Scouts but their deployment rules are handy and the ability to snipe characters and generate the odd Mortal Wound are useful. I don't think Sniper-heavy armies are going to be a thing in 8th but having one unit for any army that can take them is generally a good idea.

Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers are probably the best Aspect Warriors and provide a healthy dose of fire power. Banshees are better than they have been since 4th/5th given that they can finally assault out of their transport but S3 is still a hindrance. If you want to run them, make sure you have a Farseer to Doom their target or far too many hits will just bounce off.

Wraithguard and Wraithblades are both excellent. Although their toughness has been reduced slightly, the fact that they have 3 wounds each makes them very durable. I think I favour the D-scythe variants best. They are almost as good as Wraithcannons against large targets and far better against infantry. They can advance, fire (thanks to the D-scythes being Assault) and still auto-hit. If the enemy charge, they will face S10 auto-hitting overwatch. If they are in combat, they can simply walk out and fire freely thanks to their "Implacable" rule.

Wraithlords are priced competitively with Dreadnoughts. Either run them cheaply with a Glaive and flamers and just charge them towards the enemy as a distraction or tool them up with 2 heavy weaposn and use them to babysit a shooty unit like Reapers. Your enemy will think twice about Deep Striking close to that.

Yeah at the moment, mainly because I only own 20-odd guardians, I'm using a unit of rangers as my 3rd Troops choice in a Batallion Detachment. I like their aesthetic and the way snipers work in 8th but I also find them to be a great unit to sit on an objective (any - thanks to the deployment rules) and, as you say, they can deal some damage every now and again.

Yeah D-scythe Wraithguard do have a lot going for them, but they're just so expensive. Will definitely be trying them out, but I'm not sure they'll become a staple. D3 hits is a far cry from the amount of hits they could get in 7th combined with a WWP and/or a DE Transport and I don't like how one turn you can be firing 5 shots for the unit, and the next 15. A bit too Loota-esque for me. Don't get me wrong, I love Lootas, but Wraithguard are too expensive for that.

I'll definitely be giving the Wraithlord a try too, partly because I've had the model, love it, and have hardly ever used it. Mine's modelled with a sword which is a shame, since I think the best option is to load up with two brightlances/shuricannons and go vehicle/infantry hunting. It's no slouch in combat, even without the sword. The only thing that puts me off is how its WS and BS depreciate as it loses wounds.

-Steppenwolf- wrote:

The Shadow wrote:

-Steppenwolf- wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Just want to pop in real quick and say you need to check again about the dirt cheapness of those jetbikes. If theyre cheap in any way they arent DE.

Duly noted. I think my buddy said they're about 70pts for a 3 man unit with a blaster? Lot better than I can do with chaos bikes haha

Unless there's been some FAQ that's amended this, the Reaver Jetbikes are 30 points a pop - not dirt cheap at all. That makes a squad of 3 with a blaster/heat lance 105/115 points. Considering cluster caltrops have been changed almost entirely, the Reavers have lost their nasty impact hits, and the best they can do in combat is a mortal wound and a few S4 AP -1 attacks. Sure, they can get there turn 1, but unless your opponent is taking them for less points than he should - for whatever reason - I think these are one of the weaker units in the new Index and nothing to worry about. As you say, perhaps bubblewrap any really squishy units they might target (or deploy them away from them) and you should be ok.

Ah ok he may have made a calculation error then, I'll ask. And I'm not really concerned with the damage they put out - it's mostly about them tying up a fire support unit that's more important than them.

In that case, as others have said, you need yourself some screening units. These are pretty useful overall in this edition, due to the number of things that can deepstrike (and subsequently charge) as well as the fact that (snipers aside) you can only target characters if they're the closest unit to you. Basically, any cheap unit will do for this, though ideally they'll be mobile. If the support unit in question is a character, you'll be able to bubblewrap them and they'll literally be un-targetable (aside from things like snipers and bombs) until the bubblewrap unit is destroyed. This is a bit more difficult if the unit in question is several models, but can still be done with several small units.

Finally! A Game of Thrones miniatures game! The fact it's a regimental based game makes me even more excited about it. Everything I've read so far looks good too, models look good, rules simple and effective, different ways to play (and all named after a book title which is cool).

Like others have said, I am worried about the base pledge. I'd need to find someone to play with and am not going to pledge my hard earned cash if I don't think I'd even get to use the game. Someone also mentioned the ex-WHFB crowd, sadly all those in my area (myself exluded ) have fully moved on to AoS, so I'm not sure many would go for this. Seen a few people in the FLGS playing the Game of Thrones card/board game, so hopefully those guys could be persuaded to pick up some miniatures.

alleus wrote:

Additionally, while designers Eric Lang and Michael Shinall admitted the universe (and thus the game) are low fantasy, they’ve gone to great efforts to ensure that it doesn’t look like it’s just generic humans fighting other generic humans.

I am a bit sad to hear this though. I was hoping for a White Walker faction, would be amazing. Also playing with dragons for Daenerys would also be great. I think it could still be great with just humans as long as they are unique and interesting, but some of the "high fantasy" elements should be in I think.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't do the Army of the Dead at some point. Everyone will want White Walker models!

As a way of getting support where you want it, is the Swarmlord in a pod a viable option? It also allows you to plonk a combat monster with psychic powers 9" away from your enemy. Or is it still better to have him walk up the board protected by Tyrant Guard?

-Steppenwolf- wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Just want to pop in real quick and say you need to check again about the dirt cheapness of those jetbikes. If theyre cheap in any way they arent DE.

Duly noted. I think my buddy said they're about 70pts for a 3 man unit with a blaster? Lot better than I can do with chaos bikes haha

Unless there's been some FAQ that's amended this, the Reaver Jetbikes are 30 points a pop - not dirt cheap at all. That makes a squad of 3 with a blaster/heat lance 105/115 points. Considering cluster caltrops have been changed almost entirely, the Reavers have lost their nasty impact hits, and the best they can do in combat is a mortal wound and a few S4 AP -1 attacks. Sure, they can get there turn 1, but unless your opponent is taking them for less points than he should - for whatever reason - I think these are one of the weaker units in the new Index and nothing to worry about. As you say, perhaps bubblewrap any really squishy units they might target (or deploy them away from them) and you should be ok.

Yeah all our troops are pretty good now, which is great to see.

How are people running Hormagaunts though? They're still cheap despite the boosts, but I'm conscious of making them over-costed by adding Adrenal Glands and/or Toxin Sacs. I'm just thinking of running a big unit of 30 with no upgrades on foot to take advantage of their 8" movement. That's still only 150pts. Thoughts?

And Termagants? Units of 30 with 10 Fleshborer/20 Devourers seems to be the popular option. I liked a unit of pure Devilgants in a pod last edition, is that still viable with a unit of 20, to guarantee the re-roll of 1s to wound?

Ah ok that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I haven't played any games yet and only own the two Xenos Indicies so don't have a lot to compare to. I guess comparing to similar Eldar skimmer units the WS is a hell of a lot more durable.

And for the rest it sounds much the same as I'd suspected, other things suffering from price hikes. Not a case of them being so good, just of everything else having gotten worse I can see where the spam might come from

So, if several units of guardians in Serpents are the backbone of a good list, what are people fleshing it out with. Eldrad and Autarchs look good to me for the HQ slot and, as others have mentioned, Shadow Spectres and the two flyers are all solid units.

I feel I'm missing something here, but I can't see why everyone is raving about Guardians and Wave Serpents...

So I see that Wave Serpents are good, don't get me wrong. They're a solid, mobile transport with decent firepower... but they always have been. I don't see anything special here that sets them apart. Sure, the ability to deal mortal wounds with the shield is good, but it's a one-shot deal that makes you lose the benefit of the shield. Good, but a far cry from the Serpents of the 6th edition codex. Now, I've only just got back from abroad and had a look at all the 8th edition stuff, so I'm not very familiar with how the new system works... Does the Wave Serpent have an unusually high number of wounds for the points cost or something?

As for Guardians, they literally haven't changed. A 12" Assault 2 Bladestorm weapon for 8 points. Again, it's good and, yes, you can, as people have been saying, combine it with Doom/Guide to really bring the pain, but that's nothing new either. I've literally been doing that since 4th edition when I was a kid. Are people just combining this with the Ynnari thing to get an extra turn of shooting? Because if so, that's a different kettle of fish entirely, in my opinion. It just seems to me that the trusty shuriken catapault is as good as it's ever been, but with Dire Avengers suffering a hefty price hike, and other popular options like Windriders and Spiders being (rightly so) nerfed slightly, people are just turning back to the guardians? Am I wrong?

Like I say, I feel I'm missing something here. I have literally just got the Index today, after all, and only read the core rules 3 days ago... Anyone care to enlighten me?

@grotrebel: Yeah, it's not about how good PKs are, you just have to take them, it's the Ork way

And yeah, in my initial list-building it had got to the point where I'd got a Trukk with a couple of Painboyz, Waaagh Banners and a KFF Mek to protect it, driving up purely to support my boyz. I don't know, it just seemed a bit overkill. Weirdboy teleportation sounds a lot better, and I'd only really had the KFF in there to fill the second HQ slot, which now the Weirdboy can do.

Only just had a chance to go over all the 8th stuff...

One clear benefit I see is that, with Troupe Masters as HQ, it's really easy to fit in the extra Detachments for the +1 CP.

Is it me or are Death Jesters not that great anymore? Choosing one model to flee first is no where near as good as making a whole unit flee off the side of the board... If so, that's a great shame because, as I mentioned, 2 DJs and a Solitaire (who seems excellent) would be great in the Elites Detachment.

I know Harlies don't have much choice, but does anyone have any units they recommend as must-haves? What about support units from Eldar/Dark Eldar? I've seen Hemlocks mentioned...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but with Instant Death being scrapped, Tyranid Warriors have gotten very good. They've gotten bonuses in a better Shadow in the Warp, cheap upgrades and buffs from a Prime. I think I'm right in saying you can get a unit of 3 with AG, Boneswords and Deathspitters for just under 100pts (may well be wrong, the new way of working out points is very confusing - I've just got back from abroad and reading up on the changes so this all new to me...). Anyway, that gives you a cheap Troops unit that's durable and pretty decent in both combat and shooting.

As discussed I think the Trygon Prime + Genestealer combo is an excellent option, but is it overkill/stupid to drop a Tyrannocyte with a Broodlord in next to them? Seems a bit too much, but it will give the Genestealers the buff and some psychic powers to help them out.

What other units do you guys recommend? From what I've seen so far, it's pretty much the opposite of what you'd take in 7th... I'm writing a list here and including Warriors, Trygons, Genestealers and no flyrants.

wtwlf123 wrote:Weirdboyz, Ghaz, Warboss on Bike, Boyz, Stormboyz, Waaagh! Banner Nobz, Deffkoptaz and Lootas.

Skipped over the Deffkoptas... Yeah they do seem great. Cheap way to get an extra CP with the fast attack Detachment as well. And yeah Waagh Banners, of course. Them being characters is pretty huge.

JimOnMars wrote:Even with a failed charge, Da Jumping 30 boyz scares the bleep out of people. Jump 30 shootas and roll 60 dice behind their lines...it looks like a deathstar even though it isn't. They'll have to deal with all those boyz. Depending on your meta, your opponent may not have enough anti-infantry, in which case he is in trouble.

Plus Smite is so dang reliable, almost auto-hitting D3 and frequently getting D6 moral wounds on things. You have to position the weirdboy correctly to try to get multiple turns of smiting onto important stuff.

Nothing else in our index can so reliably give mortal wounds.

Very true. Don't think I have 30 shoota boyz to hand though unfortunately, but I imagine 30 sluggas is almost as good. And yeah, I keep forgetting about Smite. Would you recommend a few Weirdboyz then, to pile up those mortal wounds?

Sluggaloo wrote:I'd say nobz with power stabbas would be a great asset if you're planning to spam a trukk based list ala speed freaks.

Nobz are made for trukks this edition. You have the option of adding cheap wounds through ammo runts to absorb the trukk's explosion, while the trukk's capacity means transporting boyz is lackluster in comparison as they're denied their+1 attack buff.

Power stabbas are some of our more point efficient wargear options, and in an edition where spam is king you'll want to keep your nobz squads cheap.

Breezed over power stabbas as well, but yeah 3 points for -2 AP is a steal. Will probably still stick a PK in there since that's just me (and hitting with them first on the charge is sweet).

Also great call on using Ammo Runts as expendable wounds. The controlling player chooses the allocation of wounds now, right? So surely it's worth paying 20 points for 5 expendable wounds on a unit of 5 Nobz and just keeping them at the back?

And yeah good point about transporting the boyz. My usual set up was two units of ~20 in Battlewagons with whatever characters you felt necessary (usually a Painboy) in there too, but requiring the 20 for the bonus is making it pretty tricky to get the correct supporting characters in there. Plus there's a risk of an explosion cancelling out your bonus. Sounds like a big unit of 30 Boyz doing "Da Jump" plus some Nobz in Trukks with Waagh Banners is going to be the basis of my list, probably a Biker Boss with a few Warbikers (2 wounds, finally!) in there as well.

Is there a good way of getting supporting characters up to help out the 30 boyz? Or is it just going to be best to make them the target of turn 2's "Da Jump"?

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Also what are everyone's thoughts on Kombi-Skorchas? They look great but 19 points seems to be a hefty price tag

What is everyone seeing in the Weirdboy? I'm hearing a lot of a chatter about it...

Warpath is certainly a great power, sure, but Da Jump does leave you with a 9" charge range which, even with the re-roll, isn't thaat good? I suppose if it's a huge unit turn 1 then great but that means you have to take such a unit to make the most of it (not that that's a bad thing, as others have said, big units are very viable, but for those of us who like playing Speed Freeks it's a bit of a shame). *edit* Oh wait you can choose your powers now... Ok, this does make them a lot better, able to choose which power you want based on what unit you'll be pairing them with (i.e. big mob for Da Jump and Warpath for smaller ones)

Are there any other units that people feel are auto-includes, or excellent? I've only just got back from living abroad and had a chance to read through the new rules, but to me, the characters, Warbikers, Kommandos and regular Nobz are looking like good choices.

I'm also definitely in the pro-PK camp. The -1 to hit is a shame, but it's a fair trade-off to be able to swing it first if you get the charge, and there's ways the army can offset the -1.

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