The Aerodrome Forum - Lothar von Richthofen Fokker D.VII (help) (2024)

Hi all
I am working on a painting of Kindley’s Camel and I would like to get some more information on the incident as show below *

“Kindley's patrol engaged Jasta 11 on August 13, 1918. That day, he scored his fourth victory, shooting down a Fokker D.VII possibly flown by Lothar von Richthofen who was wounded in the battle.”

What I would like to find out is
* * *Did this really happen. Has it been verified that Kindley was the pilot to shot down Lothar von Richthofen.
* * *Any information on what Lothar von Richthofen’s Fokker D. VII looked like.
I sure could use some help with this
Tom

Hi TCA,

I asked a question regarding the colors of LvR's Fokker DVII back in August. Do a search for "Lothar's ride" or look back in the posts to August 28 2002 under "WW1 Aviation". There is a good description of his Fokker DVII. There is also a nice painting of it on the cover of "Fokker DVII in Action" by Squadron/Signal publications. Good luck.

regards

Hi TCA,

* *The cover of the Squadron Signal book on the Fokker D.VII is wrong in more than one way. The aircraft depicted on the cover was not flown by Lothar von Ricthofen but by Ltn. Alois Heldmann of Jasta 10.

* * *The misconception that this aircraft was flown by Lothar von Ricthofen comes from a series of photographs taken when D.VII 244/18 was borrowed by Lothar in July 1918. Jon Guttmann interviewed Alois Heldmann *in 1988 ,and *Heldmann stressed that Fokker D.VII *244/18 was indeed his aircraft.

* Lothar himself described his last Fokker D.VII as a "red bird".
*
* Fokker D.VII F294/18 of Jasta 11 would possibly be a match for Lothar's aircraft.
* A combat report filed by Hermann Göring for his final kill describes this aircraft, D.VII F294/18 *as having a red nose and yellow tail. *Lothar's personal colour was pale yellow . I understand Goering used the aircraft that had been prepared for Lothar, but Lothar was still recovering from his last accident. It was available and as Geschwader Kommandeur , Goering made use of it.
* It was an early Fokker built aircraft and as such would have the *streaky finished fuselage in pale green and deep green.
The wings were *in 5 colour lozenge with rib tape cut from the same 5 colour lozenge fabric.
*Along with the yellow tail it would have metal engine cowling , all struts and wheel centre's painted red. * * *
* * * * * * *
* * * * * * *MacBain

Hi Macbain,
Yes you are correct, he did fly Heldmann's 244/17. I think that TCA wanted to know what were the colors of the aircraft he flew when he was shotdown by Kindley. Because he probably flew 244/17 on that mission, indirectly this would be "his" aircraft, even though it was primarily flown by Heldmann. According to most sources, he never flew 294/17 in combat. Please read the previous posting under "WW1 Aviation" for a posting by me on August 28 of this year titled "Lothar's Ride". What are your thoughts on this?

regards

Hi Wingedwarrior,

* *Would you please be kind enough to be more specific on the location of the *thread you wish me to examine. *W.W.I aviation has all the subsection topics of the forum in it.

*Lothar was photographed in Heldmann's 244/18 in July 1918. What makes you think that Lothar von Richthofen, Staffelfuehrer of Jasta 11 would be flying the Fokker D.VII *assigned to Alois Heldmann of Jasta 10 in August 1918 ? * What makes you think he even flew 244/18 in combat? *What makes you think he even flew 244/18 period ? He had his photograph taken in this aircraft.
*
*Heldmann said he flew 244/18 *from April to August 1918 and scored 7 victories in it. There is no mention by Heldmann of this aircraft being lost with Lothar at the controls. I think I will go with the Heldmann version, unless of course you can show me which man you are in a group shot of the Richthofen Geschwader.

* Heldmann received in approx. Aug 1918 a new Fokker D.VII from the 4250-4449/18 series. In particular D.VII 4264/18.
*
* * Your arguement now has the Staffelfuehrer of Jasta 11 ,the premier Jasta of the German airforce flying a hand-me-down Fokker from Jasta 10 in August 1918.

* If anything Lothar would have been flying in August a new Fokker D.VII most likely from the production run I have mentioned above , definately with a BMW engine. * * *
* *
*What sources are you talking about when you say he didn't fly F294/18 ?

* * * * *

*
* *
* * * * * * * * * *MacBain

*Hi Wingedwarrior,

* I did find that thread under "People".

* There is nothing that those gentleman *posted that was new to me.

*
* * * * * * * * *MacBain
*
* *
* * *

Weldboy

If Kindley was involved in the fight on 13 Aug 1918 when LvR was wounded in a leg and thereafter landed ok in a field, who did the other fellows of 148 Asq(Whiting ,Seibold and Jenkinson) shot at..?

Do someone knew the actual time and location when LvR was wounded..?

Did any of the pilots of 148 Asq describe(original) the colors of the enemy aircraft they met..?

It seems by LvR own description that the bullet hitting his leg came from nowhere..!

:-/
Gunnar

My apologies Macbain for sending you to the wrong postings about Lothar's Fokker DVII. I hope this helped you. Thanks for the additional info.

regards

Hello Wingedwarrior,

* * I hope what I posted has helped you. *I am always more than willing to share what I know with others who have the same interests.

Hello Gunnar,

* I have read your posts with much interest. You are a very knowledgeable man.

* *
* * * *MacBain
* * * * * * *